Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israe

Postby BalticFox » 09 May 2014, 15:44

Deebank wrote:It seems a bit weird - he is otherwise sound politically, unlike the other rock star fox-botherer Brian Ferry....


Fox botherer? Now that's different. I thought you were mostly sheep botherers in your neck of the woods.

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Well that's another of the long list of things we Canadians have over you Brits. We never think in terms of "class". Well perhaps the occasional transplanted dyed-in-the-wool Brit here in the Great White North still thinks that way, but the rest of us regard them as being rather "eccentric", to put it very kindly.

:roll:
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israe

Postby Snarfyguy » 09 May 2014, 16:00

Foxhound wrote:
Snarfyguy wrote:
Foxhound wrote:BTW Snarfyguy, how's your old dance partner Rich from Classicrockforums doing? I noticed you came over here to find some like minded individuals shortly after he was banned.


Sorry, I can't remember who that is anymore. :(


He's one of the fellows with whom you participated in those interminable Democrat versus Republican arguments.

Well that sounds like a waste of time!

I hope I won. :)
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israe

Postby BalticFox » 09 May 2014, 20:47

Sorry. I can't remember all the torrid details. Whatever the topic they all swiftly devolved to whether Bill Clinton had set a better example for America's youth or whether George Bush was now teaching the islamists (or was it the Chinese? Koreans? Albigensians?) a better lesson. Though neither was a teacher by trade. Monica Lewinsky was somehow involved, and so were Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden in some kind of unholy menage à trois.

That's all I can remember though. It was years ago. You might ask Hepcat. He follows these things more closely. He says he's a Libertarian but most people just label him a subversive and stay well clear.
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby Geezee » 20 Nov 2017, 16:10

And now the battle goes from the Stones to Radiohead to Nick Cave...

https://pitchfork.com/news/brian-eno-ro ... l_facebook

I articulated what I generally felt about this on the Radiohead thread (http://www.bcb-board.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=134457). I have to say it does make me think of their music differently - both Radiohead's and Nick Cave's, all the more so because they have both obviously thought about it a great deal, and Cave going so far as to say that he is doing this deliberately to spite the BDS movement. I certainly don't see this as any form of censorship - it's quite a ridiculous thing to say. Also quite interesting as I believe Nick Cave and Thurston Moore are quite good friends (they've certainly collaborated here and there and have alot of connections) and are at polar opposites on this one.
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby Nick » 21 Nov 2017, 13:12

I've been really heartened to see Cave and Radiohead stand by their principles on this, good for them.
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby Moleskin » 21 Nov 2017, 13:14

Nick wrote:I've been really heartened to see Cave and Radiohead stand by their principles on this, good for them.


Just like Queen in the 80s, money trumps morality.
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby !!VAPRANT!! » 21 Nov 2017, 13:18

Why is it immoral to play Israel in 2017?
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby Jeemo » 21 Nov 2017, 13:24

Nick wrote:I've been really heartened to see Cave and Radiohead stand by their principles on this, good for them.


seems like Cave is going because he was asked not to
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby Moleskin » 21 Nov 2017, 13:27

*fun and open field* wrote:Why is it immoral to play Israel in 2017?


Same reason it was immoral to play Sun City in the 80s.
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby !!VAPRANT!! » 21 Nov 2017, 13:32

indirectly funding a hateful regime?

I’m not convinced. But Cave doesn’t make a whole lot of sense either
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby Nick » 21 Nov 2017, 13:49

Moleskin wrote:
*fun and open field* wrote:Why is it immoral to play Israel in 2017?


Same reason it was immoral to play Sun City in the 80s.


It isn't. There's no reasonable parallel to be drawn between the two, much as the proponents of BDS would like there to be.
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby Nick » 21 Nov 2017, 13:51

Moleskin wrote:
Nick wrote:I've been really heartened to see Cave and Radiohead stand by their principles on this, good for them.


Just like Queen in the 80s, money trumps morality.


Why do you assume The Bad Seeds played there for the money?

It seems clear to me that Cave wanted to go on a point of principle.
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby Moleskin » 21 Nov 2017, 13:58

Nick wrote:
Moleskin wrote:
Nick wrote:I've been really heartened to see Cave and Radiohead stand by their principles on this, good for them.


Just like Queen in the 80s, money trumps morality.


Why do you assume The Bad Seeds played there for the money?

It seems clear to me that Cave wanted to go on a point of principle.


Yes. The principle of money being more important than morality.
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby Moleskin » 21 Nov 2017, 13:59

Nick wrote:
Moleskin wrote:
*fun and open field* wrote:Why is it immoral to play Israel in 2017?


Same reason it was immoral to play Sun City in the 80s.


It isn't. There's no reasonable parallel to be drawn between the two, much as the proponents of BDS would like there to be.


The parallel isn't exact but it doesn't need to be. Israel is effectively an apartheid state and responsible since 1948 for ethnic cleansing on a grand scale. But I know you are an apologist for this racism.
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby Nick » 21 Nov 2017, 14:04

Moleskin wrote:Yes. The principle of money being more important than morality.


:roll:

Does Nick Cave strike you as a man who's spent his career chasing big bucks?
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby Goat Boy » 21 Nov 2017, 14:05

*fun and open field* wrote:indirectly funding a hateful regime?

I’m not convinced. But Cave doesn’t make a whole lot of sense either


I think he has a point but he doesn’t express it with enough clarity. I don’t think Waters approach does the BDS any favours here. It’s symptomatic of a kind of public shaming you increasingly see in relation to perceived transgressions like this. I understand it’s a highly emotive issue but statements like:

We hurl our glasses into the fire of your arrogant unconcern, and smash our bracelets on the rock of your implacable indifference.


Are adolescent and silly. And then he ends it by saying:

Nick, the moment came and went brother, you missed it, if at some point in the future you want to climb out of the dark, all you have to do is open your eyes, we, in BDS will be here to welcome you into the light.
Love
Roger Waters and Co.


If that patronising, judgemental statement was directed towards me I think I’d be tempted to tell him to “fuck off” on principle frankly. If you want people to come over to your side then I don’t think trying to embarrass and shame them is necessarily the best approach, you know?
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby Deebank » 21 Nov 2017, 14:09

Nick wrote:I've been really heartened to see Cave and Radiohead stand by their principles on this, good for them.


Their principles?

I don't know about Cave but I seem to remember Thom Yorke leading the charge against China's occupation of Tibet, or did I imagine that?

Israel's occupation of Palestine is different how exactly?
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby Nick » 21 Nov 2017, 14:09

Moleskin wrote:But I know you are an apologist for this racism.


:lol:
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby Nick » 21 Nov 2017, 14:10

Deebank wrote:
Nick wrote:I've been really heartened to see Cave and Radiohead stand by their principles on this, good for them.


Their principles?

I don't know about Cave but I seem to remember Thom Yorke leading the charge against China's occupation of Tibet, or did I imagine that?

Israel's occupation of Palestine is different how exactly?


First, what do you mean by Palestine?
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Re: Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

Postby !!VAPRANT!! » 21 Nov 2017, 14:15

Goat Boy wrote:
*fun and open field* wrote:indirectly funding a hateful regime?

I’m not convinced. But Cave doesn’t make a whole lot of sense either


I think he has a point but he doesn’t express it with enough clarity. I don’t think Waters approach does the BDS any favours here. It’s symptomatic of a kind of public shaming you increasingly see in relation to perceived transgressions like this. I understand it’s a highly emotive issue but statements like:

We hurl our glasses into the fire of your arrogant unconcern, and smash our bracelets on the rock of your implacable indifference.


Are adolescent and silly. And then he ends it by saying:

Nick, the moment came and went brother, you missed it, if at some point in the future you want to climb out of the dark, all you have to do is open your eyes, we, in BDS will be here to welcome you into the light.
Love
Roger Waters and Co.


If that patronising, judgemental statement was directed towards me I think I’d be tempted to tell him to “fuck off” on principle frankly. If you want people to come over to your side then I don’t think trying to embarrass and shame them is necessarily the best approach, you know?


Oh, without a doubt.
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