Roger Waters-Nick Mason: Why Stones shouldn’t play Israel

[Goat Boy]

Well said SOT

[Jimbo]

Palestinian Christians

Who are Israeli citizens and not Palestinians in the Palestine as a nation sense.

Hadn't heard that but it is possibly because of the need to appear fair due to the recent ruling that the ultra-religious Jews who were excluded from serving now must. And the Druze have been in the army since the beginning.

[Jimbo]

Israël... it seems so stubbornly and stupidly unwilling to enter any serious peace process. A situation that's been going on now since... 1967? 1970? 1980? I am no historian and am open to correction.

[Goat Boy]

A ruse.

[The Modernist]

by and large Israel is a normal western country with music fans as keen as any western fan.

You are in denial.

[Goat Boy]

Aye, to say Israel is 'by and large' a 'normal western country' is fucking laughable.

Talk about a blind spot.

[Jimbo]

by and large Israel is a normal western country with music fans as keen as any western fan.

You are in denial.

And you're an ignoramus. Have you ever been there? I lived there for two years and went to a Judy Collins and a Tim Hardin concert. In the years since just about every act we know and enjoy has played there. If it weren't for the fans would they have performed?

In recent years, many major musicians have played in Israel, legends like Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, Paul Simon, Elton John, and Leonard Cohen, and performers that are big draws in every genre, including:

Punk–Marky Ramone, New York Dolls, Buzzcocks, Gogol Bordello; NOFX;

Metal–Anthrax, Judas Priest, Ozzie Ozbourne, Megadeth;

Pop–Lady Gaga, Madonna, Justin Bieber, Alanis Morissette;

Rock– Red Hot Chili Peppers, Aerosmith, Linkin Park, Jethro Tull, Guns N’Roses, Rod Stewart, 30 Seconds to Mars;

Blues—-KM Williams, Lucky Peterson, Robert Belfour;

Indie–Yo La Tengo, Deerhoof, Silver Jews, Why?;

Reggae–Ziggy Marley, Steel Pulse, Easy Star All-Stars;

Grunge–The Jesus and Mary Chain; Jane’s Addiction, Faith No More;

New Wave—-Depeche Mode, Peter Murphy;

Electronica—-Pet Shop Boys, VNV Nation;

R&B–Rhianna, The Black Eyed Peas, Pitbull, and Alicia Keys.

[Goat Boy]

*whoosh*

[algroth]

Good for Pink Floyd.

Whilst Israel is often 'normalised' within mainstream perceptions for being a democracy and enjoying the considerable patronage of the west ..therefore superficially being seen as an ally, such boycotts help to remind people of why Israel is seen by many as a rogue state who has suppressed, in the most brutal fashion, the rights of Palestinians.

^This, through and through. Though it is also worth noting that not all Israelis -not even in the government- are in agreement with the ways Israel responds to the Palestinian plight.

[Jimbo]

And re-populated by whom? Da Joos?

[GoogaMooga]

The problem is Hamas' all or nothing stance, as I understand it, they want Israel wiped off the map. It's Hobson's Choice for Israel, enforce these apartheid conditions or be wiped out as a nation. Therefore the stalemate.

[The Modernist]

And you're an ignoramus. Have you ever been there? I lived there for two years and went to a Judy Collins and a Tim Hardin concert. In the years since just about every act we know and enjoy has played there. If it weren't for the fans would they have performed?

In recent years, many major musicians have played in Israel, legends like Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, Paul Simon, Elton John, and Leonard Cohen, and performers that are big draws in every genre, including:

Punk–Marky Ramone, New York Dolls, Buzzcocks, Gogol Bordello; NOFX;

Metal–Anthrax, Judas Priest, Ozzie Ozbourne, Megadeth;

Pop–Lady Gaga, Madonna, Justin Bieber, Alanis Morissette;

Rock– Red Hot Chili Peppers, Aerosmith, Linkin Park, Jethro Tull, Guns N’Roses, Rod Stewart, 30 Seconds to Mars;

Blues—-KM Williams, Lucky Peterson, Robert Belfour;

Indie–Yo La Tengo, Deerhoof, Silver Jews, Why?;

Reggae–Ziggy Marley, Steel Pulse, Easy Star All-Stars;

Grunge–The Jesus and Mary Chain; Jane’s Addiction, Faith No More;

New Wave—-Depeche Mode, Peter Murphy;

Electronica—-Pet Shop Boys, VNV Nation;

R&B–Rhianna, The Black Eyed Peas, Pitbull, and Alicia Keys.

Yes I have been there.
I am aware Israelis like pop music, but consider that somewhat less important than Palestinians being denied basic sanitation and water, being evicted from their homes and being denied basic rights.

[The Modernist]

And re-populated by whom? Da Joos?

If that offends you so much, then you should be angry about what is happening in Palestine right now. Injustices of the past can never justify crimes in the present.

[Jimbo]

Yes I have been there.
I am aware Israelis like pop music, but consider that somewhat less important than Palestinians being denied basic sanitation and water, being evicted from their homes and being denied basic rights.

And I agree that shit is fucked up there but the hypocrisy, the double standards you put on Israel when your own shit stinks just as bad, and given your long sorted history stinks even worse is galling and some balance is called for.

[Goat Boy]

Oh fuck off.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

if you're gonna be 'Jimbo' then you have to be objective. You aren't.

[The Modernist]

Yes I have been there.
I am aware Israelis like pop music, but consider that somewhat less important than Palestinians being denied basic sanitation and water, being evicted from their homes and being denied basic rights.

And I agree that shit is fucked up there but the hypocrisy, the double standards you put on Israel when your own shit stinks just as bad, and given your long sorted history stinks even worse is galling and some balance is called for.

Sorry Jimbo, but you are an apologist for what is happening in Israel. I don't agree with what the UK is doing in Iraq, but they are part of an international coalition. They are not brutally suppressing a group of people.
Your lame attempts to dig up random bits of history in order to deflect any criticism of Israel are what stinks here.
As Algroth says there are plenty of Jewish people and Israeli Jews who are appalled by Israel's actions, it's a shame you're not one of them. You obviously consider your identity- which after all is no more significant than an accident of birth -to be more important than opposing repeated and numerous abuses of democracy and human rights.

[Jimbo]

Injustices of the past can never justify crimes in the present.

You think history, the foibles of humanity have stopped in our countries? That what the west is up to today with all the crazy shit from spying and imperialism and even whole heartedly supporting Israel's violence ... fatalistically, what are you going to do except say fuck it and go to a concert. You want to boycott something evil? Don't be a hypocrite. Boycott your own country.

And duh, Goat Boy I am not objective. I have some skin in the game. Belle, I respect. But you? Buzz off, flea.

[The Modernist]

Well maybe she can knock some sense into you then.

[Snarfyguy]

Though it is also worth noting that not all Israelis -not even in the government- are in agreement with the ways Israel responds to the Palestinian plight.

Yes, thank you!

[Jimbo]

And while I am on a roll here it has always seemed to me that the way you mostly young Europeans have gotten on the pro-Palestinian band wagon is similar to the way vegans protest the meat industry or how thousands turn out for more breast cancer research. Not that the Palestinians aren't getting a raw deal from Israel (and their own corrupt leadership. Palestinians have politicians, too.) but the dilettantish way you support Palestinians is creepy, especially those of you who wear the keffiyeh to show you care.