Penk's Prog Odyssey: Caravan

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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby inside-out fox » 04 Apr 2017, 08:40

:lol:
Jimbo wrote:You must read this along with the essay I posted and then keep wondering why America is so extreme.


Still Baron wrote:The essay that you posted was absolute nonsense and unworthy of further comment.

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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: New Reviews Forthcoming

Postby Goat Boy » 04 Apr 2017, 12:17

Dog Pickle 'BEAUT' wrote:Dougie will never know the hate I have in my soul for him and his awful and misguided 'conversion' :evil:



Ooo, that's harsh.
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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: New Reviews Forthcoming

Postby yomptepi » 04 Apr 2017, 12:57

Goat Boy wrote:
Dog Pickle 'BEAUT' wrote:Dougie will never know the hate I have in my soul for him and his awful and misguided 'conversion' :evil:



Ooo, that's harsh.


Only a matter of time before you are hounded off the boards.

Yes, it is only a matter of time.

:(
You don't like me...do you?

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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby Goat Boy » 04 Apr 2017, 13:11

If it was Big Big Train I'd deserve nothing less
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Muskrat wrote:I'm undemonstrative during shows; no matter how much I enjoy them. People who get up and move around ("dance," if they will) strike me as show-offs

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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby PENK » 04 Apr 2017, 13:17

Goat Boy wrote:Big Big Train


Please think of the children
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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby Lord Rother » 04 Apr 2017, 16:46

PENK wrote:
Hightea wrote:wow a whole page review knocking Steven Wilson and picking on Steven Wilson because of how he looks. After reading a few pages of your reviews (all negative with a few nice comments throw in) of various prog bands it reminds me of what I enjoy about most of these prog bands. They all think out of the box and are not for the listener who is looking for the perfect 3 minute song and absolutely wants no improv, no long passages, no songs without a melody, nothing copied from a previous band even if it blends several styles and if you break any of these then its soulless, passionless and not rock music. This is a weak review of a classic 00's prog album from a band that has a sold catalog of great music. Memo to Penk don't even bother trying Wilson's solo albums you really won't like them. Telling us that Steven Wilson is passionless and soulless is nonsense as I've had several conversations with the man himself, one of the most passionate guys regarding music. Considering I've listened to all his PT albums and most of his side projects I consider him one of the top musicians out there today under the age of 50. Your reviews of prog sound like someone who may like a few prog or prog fringe albums and are trying to review them like they are straight up 3 minute pop rock.



My comments on the album seem to be reflected by quite a few other people who are all much bigger prog fans than I am - yomptepi, algroth, Kaspar. All comment on the sterility of Porcupine Tree's music and how it doesn't really do much that is new or exciting.



I don't have a problem with your reviews (free world and all that and your prose can be quite entertaining) but really your and their opinions of the modern prog I know and love are irrelevant. You dont enjoy the genre and they have pretty much decided they don't like anything much past the 70s (80s at a push) and there is nothing you could play them from the last 30+ years that could possibly change their views.

I am the same with rap and r&b. Difference is I don't comment on it because there's no value in saying something is shit (to me) and come up with all kinds of justifications that will be completely at odds with the views of people who love it.

Steven Wilson is a totally engaging bloke who writes and performs exceptional music. The ambient stuff isn't my cuppa at all as it happens but most of the PT albums are superb. The most recent 2 solo albums are quite wonderful, anything but soulless and derivative. Anyone who says they are are either being deliberately provocative (yawn, what's the fucking point?) or haven't actually LISTENED to them.

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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby algroth » 04 Apr 2017, 19:49

Lord Rother wrote:I don't have a problem with your reviews (free world and all that and your prose can be quite entertaining) but really your and their opinions of the modern prog I know and love are irrelevant. You dont enjoy the genre and they have pretty much decided they don't like anything much past the 70s (80s at a push) and there is nothing you could play them from the last 30+ years that could possibly change their views.

I am the same with rap and r&b. Difference is I don't comment on it because there's no value in saying something is shit (to me) and come up with all kinds of justifications that will be completely at odds with the views of people who love it.


I'm sorry, but this is a mistake. There are plenty of bands from the 80s onwards which I love whether they be what I or the world in general consider to be prog, to which I would add the likes of Ahvak, Koenjihyakkei, Honduras Libregrupo and Alamaailman Vasarat as some more examples. I listen to plenty of modern prog because I have plenty of love for the genre and *want* to find new stuff to enjoy regardless of period, but it doesn't mean I won't speak out against a negative trend when I see it, such as what I mention above. Your comment to rap would have to do more with my perception of country, for example, which is why you don't see me writing anything about the matter, but this is an area I'm pretty familiar on and which should appeal to me as a lover of progressive and experimental music in general, and which in general doesn't for things that, to my ears, is clearly fault of their music and not a "tin ear" for the genre. It may be at odds with the views of people who love it, sure, but in the end these are all opinions, and thus no less relevant a position than yours or any other's.

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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby inside-out fox » 04 Apr 2017, 22:04

It's Rother, remember. The fella means well but he's got fuck-all idea of good music.
Jimbo wrote:You must read this along with the essay I posted and then keep wondering why America is so extreme.


Still Baron wrote:The essay that you posted was absolute nonsense and unworthy of further comment.

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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: King Crimson

Postby Hightea » 05 Apr 2017, 06:47

PENK wrote:
The way that prog bands take ideas from classical and jazz is quite interesting, because the music often seems incredibly removed from those fields. Prog aims for complexity and depth but in a very different way to classical, for example.


Bingo. All I need to know from your reviews of prog bands and what you dislike about them. This is usually where it breaks down with most rock fans who hate or dislike most prog. For me this is the exciting point of a lot of prog bands. I want bands to explore the ideas of jazz and classical but relate them in a new (well at least in the 70's) rock edge way.

algroth wrote: There are plenty of bands from the 80s onwards which I love whether they be what I or the world in general consider to be prog, to which I would add the likes of Ahvak, Koenjihyakkei, Honduras Libregrupo and Alamaailman Vasarat as some more examples. I listen to plenty of modern prog because I have plenty of love for the genre and *want* to find new stuff to enjoy regardless of period, but it doesn't mean I won't speak out against a negative trend when I see it, such as what I mention above. Your comment to rap would have to do more with my perception of country, for example, which is why you don't see me writing anything about the matter, but this is an area I'm pretty familiar on and which should appeal to me as a lover of progressive and experimental music in general, and which in general doesn't for things that, to my ears, is clearly fault of their music and not a "tin ear" for the genre. It may be at odds with the views of people who love it, sure, but in the end these are all opinions, and thus no less relevant a position than yours or any other's.


Ah we see you like RIO and other more obscure instrumentation prog or in the case of Koenjihyakkei unique vocals and jazz fusion. :)
Image

Also agree its your eyes and your opinion. However you do puzzle me with your attitude with Steven Wilson. I just don't see this so called soulless of his music. Steven Wilson is not a Yngwie Malmsteen type. Maybe its you can't handle him mixing several genre into his music and you think he is only doing a half as job at each one? Sorry don't see it and as someone who is always looking for new music I tend to find Steven Wilson to be quite interesting and the directions he goes always peak my interest more.


So I've now gotten thru this whole thread not surprised by anything I've read. The typical oh you listened to this prog crap in the 70's and still hold onto like your sucking from moms tit in your basement. Funny I've got the same feeling about people who only listen to 50 and 60's pop rock, arena rock of the 70's or the noodling of bands like Led Zeppelin and Lynyrd Skynyrd (was just reading a thread or two on both these bands on BCB and neither thread mentioned noodling). Yet this prog thread its a major theme and complaint about every prog album. Actually I get the part about noodling and can get bored with it esp. in straight up rock bands where the soloist is god awful or extremely repetitive. I prefer my solos to be crisp, clean and maybe a bit experimental, what I really want is an all out jam of several instruments all soloing at the same time within an organized way.
Hello prog but its not the end of me we like a nice 3 minute pop rock song just as much. I'm a moody guy and need lots of music styles to get me thru the day.

Secondly, we see several members jumping on this thread to make sure their band they love is not classified as anything to do with prog. Without mention to names but to try and tell us Krautrock or a band like Roxy Music is not at least 1/2 prog is craziness. The beginning of kraurock is about as prog/proto-prog as it gets. Then kraurock added the jazz elements which made it similar to canterbury with a german touch. Amon Düül II, Ash Ra Tempel,can,Cluster, faust,Kraftwerk Tangerine Dream all prog related. In regards to Roxy Music - Mackay was classically trained and plays oboe and sax like he is in a prog band, Ferry would have been King Crimson's first vocalist if Fripp didn't think his voice was not right for his band. David O'List came from the NIce and played with other prog bands. Manzanera is a typical prog guy. Eno/Jobson both prog guys. explain to me why they aren't prog? By the way I'm talking the early days not later on.

Penk instead of the basic 123 of prog try other prog - Koenjihyakkei, Magma, Shakti or maybe some italian prog PFM maybe? ha you won't get this stuff either. You also stated I like for folk. I'm assuming you won't like the Strawbs because of the vocals.

Remember its only an opinion and one style of music we love. time for bed maybe we will put on music for airports to lull us to sleep. Then again maybe some beach house.

oh and prog guys can be happy and bounce around

Image

sometimes they want to be a clown

Image


sometimes they need a mask

Image

and sometimes you just want to date the bass player. :D
Image
Last edited by Hightea on 05 Apr 2017, 14:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby neville from norwich » 05 Apr 2017, 09:03

Penk has been pwnd here. I doubt we'll see him again.
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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby PENK » 05 Apr 2017, 09:52

I'm going to retreat quietly to a corner with all my Lynyrd Skynyrd records.
Darkness_Fish wrote:One slight disappointment was that there turns out to be two cinemas in Bolton

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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby neville from norwich » 05 Apr 2017, 10:20

Skope felled by Sushi, PENK demolished by noodles.

Stay away from the Asian cuisine people, lest ye desire a BCB-less existence.
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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby inside-out fox » 05 Apr 2017, 10:52

:D
Jimbo wrote:You must read this along with the essay I posted and then keep wondering why America is so extreme.


Still Baron wrote:The essay that you posted was absolute nonsense and unworthy of further comment.

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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby trans-chigley express » 05 Apr 2017, 11:01

Who's going to felled by the dim sum? It could get messy.

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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby NMB » 05 Apr 2017, 11:14

trans-chigley express wrote:Who's going to felled by the dim sum? It could get messy.


I don't know but I tried Henry Cow once and it was some din.
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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby zoomboogity » 05 Apr 2017, 14:11

clive gash wrote:Penk has been pwnd here.


I don't know about that, plenty of people do agree with him (or even got a kick out of it despite disagreeing). I've never heard Porcupine Tree, so I don't know if my opinion would be closer to Quaco's or Rother's, although I could probably guess. But it's like trying to write a 1930s screwball comedy in 2017 - some things are just of their time, which is why they gained traction in the first place.
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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: King Crimson

Postby C » 05 Apr 2017, 15:26

Hightea wrote:
PENK wrote:
The way that prog bands take ideas from classical and jazz is quite interesting, because the music often seems incredibly removed from those fields. Prog aims for complexity and depth but in a very different way to classical, for example.


Bingo. All I need to know from your reviews of prog bands and what you dislike about them. This is usually where it breaks down with most rock fans who hate or dislike most prog. For me this is the exciting point of a lot of prog bands. I want bands to explore the ideas of jazz and classical but relate them in a new (well at least in the 70's) rock edge way.

algroth wrote: There are plenty of bands from the 80s onwards which I love whether they be what I or the world in general consider to be prog, to which I would add the likes of Ahvak, Koenjihyakkei, Honduras Libregrupo and Alamaailman Vasarat as some more examples. I listen to plenty of modern prog because I have plenty of love for the genre and *want* to find new stuff to enjoy regardless of period, but it doesn't mean I won't speak out against a negative trend when I see it, such as what I mention above. Your comment to rap would have to do more with my perception of country, for example, which is why you don't see me writing anything about the matter, but this is an area I'm pretty familiar on and which should appeal to me as a lover of progressive and experimental music in general, and which in general doesn't for things that, to my ears, is clearly fault of their music and not a "tin ear" for the genre. It may be at odds with the views of people who love it, sure, but in the end these are all opinions, and thus no less relevant a position than yours or any other's.


Ah we see you like RIO and other more obscure instrumentation prog or in the case of Koenjihyakkei unique vocals and jazz fusion. :)
Image

Also agree its your eyes and your opinion. However you do puzzle me with your attitude with Steven Wilson. I just don't see this so called soulless of his music. Steven Wilson is not a Yngwie Malmsteen type. Maybe its you can't handle him mixing several genre into his music and you think he is only doing a half as job at each one? Sorry don't see it and as someone who is always looking for new music I tend to find Steven Wilson to be quite interesting and the directions he goes always peak my interest more.


So I've now gotten thru this whole thread not surprised by anything I've read. The typical oh you listened to this prog crap in the 70's and still hold onto like your sucking from moms tit in your basement. Funny I've got the same feeling about people who only listen to 50 and 60's pop rock, arena rock of the 70's or the noodling of bands like Led Zeppelin and Lynyrd Skynyrd (was just reading a thread or two on both these bands on BCB and neither thread mentioned noodling). Yet this prog thread its a major theme and complaint about every prog album. Actually I get the part about noodling and can get bored with it esp. in straight up rock bands where the soloist is god awful or extremely repetitive. I prefer my solos to be crisp, clean and maybe a bit experimental, what I really want is an all out jam of several instruments all soloing at the same time within an organized way.
Hello prog but its not the end of me we like a nice 3 minute pop rock song just as much. I'm a moody guy and need lots of music styles to get me thru the day.

Secondly, we see several members jumping on this thread to make sure their band they love is not classified as anything to do with prog. Without mention to names but to try and tell us Krautrock or a band like Roxy Music is not at least 1/2 prog is craziness. The beginning of kraurock is about as prog/proto-prog as it gets. Then kraurock added the jazz elements which made it similar to canterbury with a german touch. Amon Düül II, Ash Ra Tempel,can,Cluster, faust,Kraftwerk Tangerine Dream all prog related. In regards to Roxy Music - Mackay was classically trained and plays oboe and sax like he is in a prog band, Ferry would have been King Crimson's first vocalist if Fripp didn't think his voice was not right for his band. David O'List came from the NIce and played with other prog bands. Manzanera is a typical prog guy. Eno/Jobson both prog guys. explain to me why they aren't prog? By the way I'm talking the early days not later on.

Penk instead of the basic 123 of prog try other prog - Koenjihyakkei, Magma, Shakti or maybe some italian prog PFM maybe? ha you won't get this stuff either. You also stated I like for folk. I'm assuming you won't like the Strawbs because of the vocals.

Remember its only an opinion and one style of music we love. time for bed maybe we will put on music for airports to lull us to sleep. Then again maybe some beach house.

oh and prog guys can be happy and bounce around

Image

sometimes they want to be a clown

Image


sometimes they need a mask

Image

and sometimes you just want to date the bass player. :D
Image


Great seminally robust post

oooof!




.
neville harp wrote:God bless you brother C x

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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby C » 05 Apr 2017, 15:37

As my dear learned and esteemed friend Hightea mentioned - Italian 70s prog band PFM

Try this:










.
neville harp wrote:God bless you brother C x

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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby Hightea » 05 Apr 2017, 15:55

C wrote:As my dear learned and esteemed friend Hightea mentioned - Italian 70s prog band PFM

Try this:










.


:D Actually except for a song or two I didn't start getting into Italian prog until around 2000. Since then its been an ever evolving long list of great Italian prog bands, there are over 100 of them. We thank the festival NEARfest which we attended from 00-10 with introducing me to this sub genre.The organizer was a big fan of Italian prog and brought us the big three (Banco del Mutuo Soccorso , Le Orme and PFM) along with many others. The vendor rooms at NEARfest were another introducion into how big prog is internationally. 1000's of cd's from all over the world that were prog or prog related.
Prog nerd heaven.

PFM
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Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby Hightea » 05 Apr 2017, 15:56

PENK wrote:I'm going to retreat quietly to a corner with all my Lynyrd Skynyrd records.

enjoy the noodling :lol: