Penk's Prog Odyssey: ELP

Do talk back
User avatar
ConnyOlivetti
Probing The Sonic Heritage
Posts: 9572
Joined: 06 Nov 2003, 07:14
Location: Below The North Pole
Contact:

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby ConnyOlivetti » 03 Apr 2017, 11:42

PENK wrote:


Steven Wilson,

The guy has remastered every single album on Carlsson's shelves and then some. He has remastered most of the joke albums posted in the spoof 'Prog Canon' threads. He has recorded about a dozen records with Porcupine Tree, plus some solo ones and some side projects, for the sole purpose of remastering them a few years down the line. Steve Hoffman has a contract out on him.
.


Nope!
Remix! Not remastering! Huge different!
never/ever wrote:the BCB-universe...may it continue to piss Coan off ad infinitum.


Un enfant dans electronica!
Je suis!

User avatar
PENK
Midnight to Six Man
Posts: 33068
Joined: 07 Aug 2004, 20:12
Location: Stockholm

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby PENK » 03 Apr 2017, 11:48

Well, my mistake. Duly amended.

Doesn't have any bearing on my opinion of his own music though!
Darkness_Fish wrote:One slight disappointment was that there turns out to be two cinemas in Bolton

User avatar
Moleskin
Posts: 13816
Joined: 18 Feb 2004, 12:38
Location: We began to notice that we could be free, And we moved together to the West.

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby Moleskin » 03 Apr 2017, 13:31

I like the earlier psych-ey Porcupine Tree albums more than the latter-day prog-metal influenced records.

I like the No-Man albums more too.

Oh, and his collaboration with Mikael Åkerfeldt of Opeth as Storm Corrosion is well worth a listen
@hewsim
-the artist formerly known as comrade moleskin-
-the unforgettable waldo jeffers-

Jug Band Music
my own music

User avatar
trans-chigley express
Posts: 16592
Joined: 11 Nov 2003, 01:50
Location: Asia's WC

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby trans-chigley express » 03 Apr 2017, 14:18

Moleskin wrote:
I like the No-Man albums more too

I must admit i struggle a bit with No-man, I just find them a bit too one-paced though some of their stuff does grow on you after a while but i dont always have that degree of patience these days and prefer the more immediate sounds of the Blackfied collaboration instead. His ambient Bass Communion stuff is a bit tedious though.

User avatar
pcqgod
Posts: 15248
Joined: 11 Apr 2010, 07:23
Location: Texas

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby pcqgod » 03 Apr 2017, 15:36

trans-chigley express wrote:
pcqgod wrote: I remember reading reviews of some of his earlier work described as more psychedelic, but I haven't bothered to investigate to date.


Yes his earlier stuff is definitely more psychedelic and Floydish. My gateway album was the second one Up The Downstair and have followed him ever since so I've become accustomed to his gradual shift in style and have warmed to all of it to varying degrees. I'm not sure what I would make of In Absentia if that was my first PT album to be honest as it does include a lot of things I don't normally like (the muscular heavy riffing in particular) but because it's Steven Wilson I more readily accept it and spend time with it as ultimately I know his stuff will win me over far more often than not.



Thanks, I'll have to check out that earlier stuff.
Where would rock 'n' roll be without feedback?

User avatar
Moleskin
Posts: 13816
Joined: 18 Feb 2004, 12:38
Location: We began to notice that we could be free, And we moved together to the West.

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby Moleskin » 03 Apr 2017, 19:02

The Incredible Expanding Mindfuck is patchy, though I wouldn't be without "Fie Kesh" from the first CD, or "Headphone Dust" either.

(This is largely improvised stuff by a rotating cast, and can get skronky.)
@hewsim
-the artist formerly known as comrade moleskin-
-the unforgettable waldo jeffers-

Jug Band Music
my own music

User avatar
PENK
Midnight to Six Man
Posts: 33068
Joined: 07 Aug 2004, 20:12
Location: Stockholm

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby PENK » 03 Apr 2017, 19:36

trans-chigley express wrote: I'm not sure what I would make of In Absentia if that was my first PT album to be honest


I've heard bits and bobs from other phases of their career and not been keen either.

Your comment is interesting though as it's something I found tricky on this thread's first go-round: a lot of prog bands have so many different "best albums" and "recommended listens" that it's difficult to decide which one to try first, and whichever one I try it seems there will be people saying "no, you should have listened to... first".
Darkness_Fish wrote:One slight disappointment was that there turns out to be two cinemas in Bolton

User avatar
yomptepi
BCB thumbscrew of Justice
Posts: 34282
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 17:57
Location: well

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby yomptepi » 03 Apr 2017, 19:56

If music was made by artificial intelligence, then it would sound like porcupine tree. Everybody else's ideas and inspiration run through a processing chip, and recycled as something original. It has no soul, no spark, no energy, no inspiration, no passion, no art. It is sterile and unconvincing. It is, as a great man once said, nothing more than derivative clap trap. A turd.
You don't like me...do you?

User avatar
WG Kaspar
Posts: 8172
Joined: 28 Jan 2007, 09:07

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby WG Kaspar » 03 Apr 2017, 20:56

yomptepi wrote:If music was made by artificial intelligence, then it would sound like porcupine tree. Everybody else's ideas and inspiration run through a processing chip, and recycled as something original. It has no soul, no spark, no energy, no inspiration, no passion, no art. It is sterile and unconvincing. It is, as a great man once said, nothing more than derivative clap trap. A turd.

For once I agree withe Yomp. Must be the end of days.
I run out of talent

User avatar
Hightea
Posts: 719
Joined: 16 Apr 2015, 02:18
Location: NY state

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby Hightea » 03 Apr 2017, 23:31

PENK wrote:Image

The sound of prog today. What is it the sound of? It's the sound of a man who looks like this:

Image

I think I prefer capes. Maybe the bus-driving RPG nerd look will catch on.

Steven Wilson, who sort of is Porcupine Tree, or is at least the only member anybody mentions, seems pretty damn polydactylous judging by the number of pies he seems to have his (pasty, probably spindly and overlong) fingers not only jammed into, but wiggling around inside and prodding bits of carrot and... I've taken this a bit too far now.

The guy has remixed every single album on Carlsson's shelves and then some. He has remixed most of the joke albums posted in the spoof 'Prog Canon' threads. He has recorded about a dozen records with Porcupine Tree, plus some solo ones and some side projects, for the sole purpose of remixing them a few years down the line. Steve Hoffman has a contract out on him.

His personal project, Porcupine Tree, are a very modern take on prog: extended songs with various sections, serious musicianly chops, vague album-long concepts, and Wilson's production very much to the forefront. Few long solos here, no medieval gubbins and little comic prancing: it's all very serious, all based around riffs and synths and dynamics. After listening to this album I have to regard it as stadium prog, with the heavy riffing, powerful drumming, dramatic structures and catchy choruses that entails.

The issue I have is that, and I don't really know how else to put this, Steven Wilson - renowned prog producer and engineer Steven Wilson - is a pretty crappy producer. Sure, he gets very clear and clean sounds and works hard at the dynamics. But the actual production sound is quite horrible. It's all chrome-plated and smooth, with no edge. '90s drivetime rock tuned up. He prizes brightness and sheen over feeling and warmth, with the result that his angsty lyrics and dramatic riffs are blunted and offputting. He is very, very efficient, to the point of creepiness.

There is clearly talent on evidence in the music, as the songs have smart structures and memorable riffs. Wilson and his band are proficient and competent. There is no pointless noodling, but that's almost a pity in this context, as what we do get is funk-metal, on at least two songs. One of those songs is called 'The Creator Has a Mastertape': a bit of producer humour there. You wag, Steven.

They throw in regular acoustic passages - many of them suspiciously similar - and there are bits that sound like Radiohead, perhaps. Mostly, though, it's faintly portentous and occasionally pumping cyber-rock. Synths that lend some zoom without getting too obtrusive, guitars and drums that focus on precision and force. On songs like 'The Sound of Muzak', Wilson does that thing where you get too close to the mic and it makes you sound like you're singing inside a computer. There are few nods to Golden Age Prog; this is modern prog, taking its cues from grunge and prog-metal, prog for the Internet age.

When I think about this record on a personal level, the biggest problem is that Steven Wilson's taste in rock music is just so radically different from mine. The melodies and chord sequences he favours are not ones that I enjoy. The angsty, driving technogrunge that he wants to create is not my idea of a good time. Lyrics like "it's so erotic when your makeup runs" make me cringe. I hear on this album rock music that is utterly soulless, however many minor-key piano verses there might be and however much Wilson emotes. He wants to sound meaningful but he sounds passionless and empty. This isn't how rock music should sound: it's dated sci-fi, shiny spaceships with doors that slide obligingly open, and flying cars. It sounds like people 25 years ago thought the future would look, before it arrived and proved them wrong. It sounds like a computer game.

Image is certainly important. I listen to a lot of electronic music and the facelessness of the producers is part of the deal. They often hide their identities, play with them, and one is quick to realise that the identity is unimportant. Translate that to rock music, though, and it doesn't work. A boring-looking man making overproduced, metallic and angsty prog is a real turn-off. The biggest problem Porcupine Tree have is that they sound exactly like the kind of music you would imagine a man who looks like Steven Wilson to make.


wow a whole page review knocking Steven Wilson and picking on Steven Wilson because of how he looks. After reading a few pages of your reviews (all negative with a few nice comments throw in) of various prog bands it reminds me of what I enjoy about most of these prog bands. They all think out of the box and are not for the listener who is looking for the perfect 3 minute song and absolutely wants no improv, no long passages, no songs without a melody, nothing copied from a previous band even if it blends several styles and if you break any of these then its soulless, passionless and not rock music. This is a weak review of a classic 00's prog album from a band that has a sold catalog of great music. Memo to Penk don't even bother trying Wilson's solo albums you really won't like them. Telling us that Steven Wilson is passionless and soulless is nonsense as I've had several conversations with the man himself, one of the most passionate guys regarding music. Considering I've listened to all his PT albums and most of his side projects I consider him one of the top musicians out there today under the age of 50. Your reviews of prog sound like someone who may like a few prog or prog fringe albums and are trying to review them like they are straight up 3 minute pop rock.

In Absentia is a wonderful album that mixes psychedelic and ambient music with modern 90's prog metal all with beautiful hooks, soaring guitars. and some catchy lyrics. Along with nice clean sounding instrumentation.

He has done a wonderful job on most of his remixes of classic albums. No idea what you are talking about here either. Glad that the musicians that have asked him to make these remixes have all been very happy with them.
Last edited by Hightea on 04 Apr 2017, 00:22, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Hightea
Posts: 719
Joined: 16 Apr 2015, 02:18
Location: NY state

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby Hightea » 03 Apr 2017, 23:33

[/quote]
Last edited by Hightea on 04 Apr 2017, 00:22, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
trans-chigley express
Posts: 16592
Joined: 11 Nov 2003, 01:50
Location: Asia's WC

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby trans-chigley express » 04 Apr 2017, 00:12

WG Kaspar wrote:
yomptepi wrote:If music was made by artificial intelligence, then it would sound like porcupine tree. Everybody else's ideas and inspiration run through a processing chip, and recycled as something original. It has no soul, no spark, no energy, no inspiration, no passion, no art. It is sterile and unconvincing. It is, as a great man once said, nothing more than derivative clap trap. A turd.

For once I agree withe Yomp. Must be the end of days.


Yet again I disagree with every word of Yomp.....must be a normal day at the office :lol:

User avatar
Hightea
Posts: 719
Joined: 16 Apr 2015, 02:18
Location: NY state

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby Hightea » 04 Apr 2017, 00:19

rr

User avatar
algroth
Posts: 4825
Joined: 04 Apr 2010, 03:12

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby algroth » 04 Apr 2017, 00:22

yomptepi wrote:If music was made by artificial intelligence, then it would sound like porcupine tree. Everybody else's ideas and inspiration run through a processing chip, and recycled as something original. It has no soul, no spark, no energy, no inspiration, no passion, no art. It is sterile and unconvincing. It is, as a great man once said, nothing more than derivative clap trap. A turd.


I would agree, and would add that I feel this way about much of what is nowadays called "prog" as well. The more hardcore scene is nowadays filled with stagnation and regression, bands who are content enough to sound like the real thing or respond to all the aspects that gave prog a bad name, but not really looking forward or playing with the academic trends of the present. To me, there is more genuine prog in Swans' latest albums, Boredoms, David Bowie's Blackstar and so on than there is in the works of Steven Wilson, Big Big Train, Beardfish or the likes.
Last edited by algroth on 04 Apr 2017, 00:27, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Hightea
Posts: 719
Joined: 16 Apr 2015, 02:18
Location: NY state

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby Hightea » 04 Apr 2017, 00:26

yomptepi wrote:If music was made by artificial intelligence, then it would sound like porcupine tree. Everybody else's ideas and inspiration run through a processing chip, and recycled as something original. It has no soul, no spark, no energy, no inspiration, no passion, no art. It is sterile and unconvincing. It is, as a great man once said, nothing more than derivative clap trap. A turd.


Your review sounds like a person who has run out of ideas of what music should be and since it doesn't fit your idea you need to mock it as soulless and no passion because you don't have another way to describe something you don't understand.Maybe you need to take a look at yourself who might just no longer have passion for music.

User avatar
joels344
Posts: 562
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 17:37
Contact:

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby joels344 » 04 Apr 2017, 04:15

yomptepi wrote:If music was made by artificial intelligence, then it would sound like porcupine tree. Everybody else's ideas and inspiration run through a processing chip, and recycled as something original. It has no soul, no spark, no energy, no inspiration, no passion, no art. It is sterile and unconvincing. It is, as a great man once said, nothing more than derivative clap trap. A turd.


This is exactly how I feel about the music of Porcupine Tree and to a lesser extent, Steven Wilson's solo career. It's just a cheap simulation of the progressive rock genre. There's nothing remotely interesting or even progressive about his music. I cannot consider it as terrible as some modern 'progressive' acts, such as Tool, Dream Theater, or Beardfish, but I never find myself dragging out Porcupine Tree albums for enjoyment. Steven Wilson is intriguing from an archivist/remastering perspective. He is truly a fan of progressive rock music and seems to have the best intentions for remastering classic albums. I've never listened to his remasters, but have heard some positive aspects about them.

User avatar
ConnyOlivetti
Probing The Sonic Heritage
Posts: 9572
Joined: 06 Nov 2003, 07:14
Location: Below The North Pole
Contact:

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby ConnyOlivetti » 04 Apr 2017, 05:01

joels344 wrote: Steven Wilson is intriguing from an archivist/remastering perspective. He is truly a fan of progressive rock music and seems to have the best intentions for remastering classic albums. I've never listened to his remasters, but have heard some positive aspects about them.


You are not alone, as he does not do remasters!
Wilson remixes!
never/ever wrote:the BCB-universe...may it continue to piss Coan off ad infinitum.


Un enfant dans electronica!
Je suis!

User avatar
joels344
Posts: 562
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 17:37
Contact:

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby joels344 » 04 Apr 2017, 05:55

ConnyOlivetti wrote:
joels344 wrote: Steven Wilson is intriguing from an archivist/remastering perspective. He is truly a fan of progressive rock music and seems to have the best intentions for remastering classic albums. I've never listened to his remasters, but have heard some positive aspects about them.


You are not alone, as he does not do remasters!
Wilson remixes!


'Larks’ Tongues in Aspic, Part Two (Wilson's Club Mix).' \m/

User avatar
PENK
Midnight to Six Man
Posts: 33068
Joined: 07 Aug 2004, 20:12
Location: Stockholm

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby PENK » 04 Apr 2017, 08:22

Hightea wrote:wow a whole page review knocking Steven Wilson and picking on Steven Wilson because of how he looks. After reading a few pages of your reviews (all negative with a few nice comments throw in) of various prog bands it reminds me of what I enjoy about most of these prog bands. They all think out of the box and are not for the listener who is looking for the perfect 3 minute song and absolutely wants no improv, no long passages, no songs without a melody, nothing copied from a previous band even if it blends several styles and if you break any of these then its soulless, passionless and not rock music. This is a weak review of a classic 00's prog album from a band that has a sold catalog of great music. Memo to Penk don't even bother trying Wilson's solo albums you really won't like them. Telling us that Steven Wilson is passionless and soulless is nonsense as I've had several conversations with the man himself, one of the most passionate guys regarding music. Considering I've listened to all his PT albums and most of his side projects I consider him one of the top musicians out there today under the age of 50. Your reviews of prog sound like someone who may like a few prog or prog fringe albums and are trying to review them like they are straight up 3 minute pop rock.


While I respect that you're obviously a fan and quite matey with Steven Wilson, if he is putting his music out there for public consumption then he has to face the inevitable consequence that people will think it is rubbish. This is true of any artist from John Coltrane to David Guetta to Tiny Tim.

My comments on the album seem to be reflected by quite a few other people who are all much bigger prog fans than I am - yomptepi, algroth, Kaspar. All comment on the sterility of Porcupine Tree's music and how it doesn't really do much that is new or exciting.

I haven't really heard Wilson's remix work so can't comment on that specifically; I just mentioned it for context as he is known as much for his production as for his writing and performing, and in the case of this album I thought that it was horribly overproduced to the point of blandness. Ultimately I felt that Wilson was, as you do hit upon, making an album for people whose taste was completely removed from my own.

And that's not to say I agree that I am trying to review the records like they are straight-up three-minute pop and am just looking for melodies and no long passages. Anyone who's been on the boards a while knows that I am as likely to be found listening to electronic music, hip-hop, classical or jazz as I am textbook pop music, all styles which rely on repetition, rhythm, long instrumental passages, slow development and so on. The problem is just that in many cases I've found that prog bands don't really get it right - a natural pitfall when being as ambitious and experimental as they often are, perhaps.

And there are certainly some "real" prog albums I like... although I listened to Brain Salad Surgery in preparation for my next review and that certainly isn't among them!
Darkness_Fish wrote:One slight disappointment was that there turns out to be two cinemas in Bolton

User avatar
Quaco
F R double E
Posts: 45502
Joined: 16 Jul 2003, 19:41

Re: Penk's Prog Odyssey: Porcupine Tree

Postby Quaco » 04 Apr 2017, 08:32

Porcupine Tree is shit!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Return to “Yakety Yak”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], John aka Josh, ThE rEd HeIfEr HaS gOoD tAsTe In MuSiC and 2 guests