Penk's Prog Odyssey: Yes - Close to the Edge

[kath]

another fine write-up, penk. i enjoy these things in a sick, addicted way, but i enjoy it all the more when *you* enjoy it. (i'm such a giving fucquin creature.) and while i will not engage in the whole jazz funk debate any more than i will get into the what-is-prog debate, i appreciate yer focus on the tunefulness of yes.

i love this album. i agree with charlie on the remix in this case. i get it when folk have probs with wilson's cleaning everything up, but to me~~in general~~it's a welcome thing. (in the case of tales, it has changed the way i get into the album. fantastic.) then again, i have a very strong anti-murk bias. my ears have gone through so much 70s murk, i find very lil of it endearing. who knows. maybe growing up in enough muddy water has influenced my view on the charm of mud puddles. in general. yeah.

There is some debate, I understand, about what exactly a "khatru" is. I'd like to open up the floor for guesses.

siberian khatru:

[Quaco]

I think you have a point but I think you're also underselling just how fertile and productive the post-punk era was. Sure, punk itself was pretty reductive and in the end a dead-end, as we've seen from the way bands are still churning out the same stuff and dressing the same way forty years later, but post-punk was a huge scene with a lot of different styles and ideas.
The problem, I think, is not so much that rock bands have taken too much from that era but that they haven't taken enough. There has been a dearth of creativity in rock music for thirty years, with a few exceptions of course, and I think there are a lot of reasons.
But yeah one significant thing is the prevalence of the "indie" attitude which is a mixture of the too-cool lo-fi slacker thing (Sonic Youth, Pavement), or in Britain the reverse class snobbery (prog boys are toffs in capes), which means bands don't want to take risks or look silly. They play it too safe and are too concerned about their image - it's a kind of peer pressure. That's something prog bands, to their credit, don't seem to have worried about so much.

Very much agree with this, and much of what Hightea is saying!

[Quaco]

Now go back and listen to the beginning of "Close to the Edge" a couple more times till it makes sense. It's the best part!

[Hightea]

I think you have a point but I think you're also underselling just how fertile and productive the post-punk era was. Sure, punk itself was pretty reductive and in the end a dead-end, as we've seen from the way bands are still churning out the same stuff and dressing the same way forty years later, but post-punk was a huge scene with a lot of different styles and ideas.
The problem, I think, is not so much that rock bands have taken too much from that era but that they haven't taken enough. There has been a dearth of creativity in rock music for thirty years, with a few exceptions of course, and I think there are a lot of reasons.
But yeah one significant thing is the prevalence of the "indie" attitude which is a mixture of the too-cool lo-fi slacker thing (Sonic Youth, Pavement), or in Britain the reverse class snobbery (prog boys are toffs in capes), which means bands don't want to take risks or look silly. They play it too safe and are too concerned about their image - it's a kind of peer pressure. That's something prog bands, to their credit, don't seem to have worried about so much.

Yeah I agree with you for the most part here. Post-Punk -Oh another major pet peeve with me is not only the term but it incorporates way too much different ideas that is should not all be tied to Punk (funny similar to your thoughts on Krautrock and space rock (I guessing) being considered prog).
Don't think I'm not a fan of lots endless post punk ( the part of punk we got early was the CBGB New Wave stuff(Talking Heads and Blondie) it's actually where my punk brother and I could agree. However, by the early 80's he was set and I kept digging more. The addition of synths and back to more experimental type music dragged me in. I've continue to like the certain branches but I've always felt it had more to give.

[Hightea]

We will not even think to comment on your thoughts about Krautrock not being a side sub-genre of prog. Krautrock is a sub-genre of prog if you don't think so you can party with Trump and his fake news.

the qualification seemingly that if the poster liked prog then anything they listened to must be prog...

really then they are wrong. My thoughts are based on life experiences, books,endless articles, websites and various discussions, yes its all opinions but I find it funny how I'll look up something today and it will be label as something not prog, yet only a few years ago it was labeled as prog. By the way I defend prog on this site all the time but it really only makes up a 1/4 of my music collection and I'm not even sure that it's that big especially if you are claiming Kraurock rock and others here who claim space rock isn't prog.