Their reputation will die with their audience

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mantochanga
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Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby mantochanga » 07 Mar 2014, 16:44

I was on a tube train with Clapton fans on their way to a Royal Albert Hall Slowhand gig a couple of years ago. As you’d imagine (and making allowances for the fact that I didn’t attend the gig, which might have been full of kids, but let’s assume not) everyone was a good 60 years old.

The thing is, I don’t see Clapton generating any new fans, or his catalogue containing much that’s ever going to be ripe for discovery. When you come right down to it, he didn’t make enough great records. I’ll be telling my grandchildren, “Badge, and that’s it”.

But if you’d grown up with him, I’m sure you’ll have a different view, based on the spirit of the age, and a recognition of Clapton’s talents and qualities that were once new, exciting or innovative, but which now sound well-worn and clichéd. He must have done some of this electric blues stuff first, or something?

Not that I want to have an argument about Clapton. But I am interested in his reputational slide from 'God' to sod. People my age are baffled that, in his day, he regularly beat Jimi Hendrix in best guitarist polls. Baffled.

But who else can we think of who was right for their own time, who still retains an audience that grew up with them, that understands the context they came out of, and knows what innovations they introduced; but who lacks whatever qualities are needed for long-view posterity and the love and attention of succeeding generations.

How about perennial BCB Cup absentees Brian Poole and the Tremeloes? The Sensational Alex Harvey Band? The REM? Bill Haley and the Comets? Bob Marley?

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The Mysterious Doctor Satan's Robot
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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby The Mysterious Doctor Satan's Robot » 07 Mar 2014, 16:47

Clapton didn't do his legacy any favours with that autobiography of his..
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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman » 07 Mar 2014, 16:48

The REM? Now really...

(your idea is a good one; but I was surprised that you thought of REM and Marley - never mind. I don't have the time to reflect on this now, but tomorrow I will delve into the matter; I am sure that just before falling asleep tonight i will get some ideas and connections between them.)
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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby fire and fueryIre » 07 Mar 2014, 16:58

mantochanga wrote:I was on a tube train with Clapton fans on their way to a Royal Albert Hall Slowhand gig a couple of years ago. As you’d imagine (and making allowances for the fact that I didn’t attend the gig, which might have been full of kids, but let’s assume not) everyone was a good 60 years old.

The thing is, I don’t see Clapton generating any new fans, or his catalogue containing much that’s ever going to be ripe for discovery. When you come right down to it, he didn’t make enough great records. I’ll be telling my grandchildren, “Badge, and that’s it”.

But if you’d grown up with him, I’m sure you’ll have a different view, based on the spirit of the age, and a recognition of Clapton’s talents and qualities that were once new, exciting or innovative, but which now sound well-worn and clichéd. He must have done some of this electric blues stuff first, or something?

Not that I want to have an argument about Clapton. But I am interested in his reputational slide from 'God' to sod. People my age are baffled that, in his day, he regularly beat Jimi Hendrix in best guitarist polls. Baffled.

But who else can we think of who was right for their own time, who still retains an audience that grew up with them, that understands the context they came out of, and knows what innovations they introduced; but who lacks whatever qualities are needed for long-view posterity and the love and attention of succeeding generations.

How about perennial BCB Cup absentees Brian Poole and the Tremeloes? The Sensational Alex Harvey Band? The REM? Bill Haley and the Comets? Bob Marley?


Not a particularly huge Clapton fan, but to ignore Layla and say that Badge is his only truly great record is just absurd. That said, can see your point about his audience kicking the bucket with him. Who are The REM btw? Presumably it's some sort of new Neil Hannon concept act about the European Exchange Rate Mechanism.
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mantochanga
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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby mantochanga » 07 Mar 2014, 17:12

OK, Layla too.

The REM did The Reckoning, The Fables of Construction. That kind of thing. I can hardly remember really. No one can!

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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby The Modernist » 07 Mar 2014, 17:22

mantochanga wrote:
But who else can we think of who was right for their own time, who still retains an audience that grew up with them, that understands the context they came out of, and knows what innovations they introduced; but who lacks whatever qualities are needed for long-view posterity and the love and attention of succeeding generations.

How about perennial BCB Cup absentees Brian Poole and the Tremeloes? The Sensational Alex Harvey Band? The REM? Bill Haley and the Comets? Bob Marley?


Although it's always a controversial thing to say on BCB, I feel that about a lot of prog,..which is why its adherents on here are almost exclusively people who have grown up with it. Generally speaking it hasn't succeeded in capturing the interest of subsequent generations.

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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby Guy E » 07 Mar 2014, 17:24

I really don't concern myself with legacy, but I think the vast majority of "rock" music will be largely forgotten when the audience dies. There are passionate music fans that become historians of a sort, they keep the best and the cult favorites alive. It's like that Gene Clark No Other tour where they replicated the whole album with an underground all-star cast. Concert interpretations of Nick Drake's songs have been mounted... that sort of thing.

A fluid historical critical consensus is established; Kraftwerk, the Velvet Underground and other "important" artists will be framed and mounted. But the vast majority will be forgotten.
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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby Phenomenal Cat » 07 Mar 2014, 17:49

Van Morrison.
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But if you think that I’ll let Rick Santorum
Move in next door and marry my son
You must think I’m crazy!

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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 07 Mar 2014, 19:20

I'd wager that Clapton's rep is among the most durable in pop music.
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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby Goat Boy » 07 Mar 2014, 19:24

VRZ Robotz wrote:I'd wager that Clapton's rep is among the most durable in pop music.


Pffffft.

The tedious racist cunt is on the way out thank God. Seriously, the guy's a dinosaur.
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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby The Modernist » 07 Mar 2014, 20:22

VRZ Robotz wrote:I'd wager that Clapton's rep is among the most durable in pop music.


In what sense is it?
I think the original post has a point. A few of his songs have become oldies radio chestnuts - "Wonderful Tonight", "Layla" and er..the one about his dead son perhaps. However his critical reputation, in terms of being seen as this vital artist, is hardly very high now. I don't think you'd find many young people looking for his work either. His biggest legacy is probably Cream, but it was Bruce and Baker that made that band in my view.

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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby Muskrat » 07 Mar 2014, 20:35

Phenomenal Cat wrote:Van Morrison.


Who?
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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 07 Mar 2014, 21:03

The Modernist wrote:However his critical reputation, in terms of being seen as this vital artist, is hardly very high now. I don't think you'd find many young people looking for his work either. His biggest legacy is probably Cream, but it was Bruce and Baker that made that band in my view.


Agree to the word.

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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby nev gash » 07 Mar 2014, 21:10

All UK "independent" music between The Smiths and The Stone Roses.
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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby WG Kaspar » 07 Mar 2014, 21:16

The Modernist wrote:
mantochanga wrote:
But who else can we think of who was right for their own time, who still retains an audience that grew up with them, that understands the context they came out of, and knows what innovations they introduced; but who lacks whatever qualities are needed for long-view posterity and the love and attention of succeeding generations.

How about perennial BCB Cup absentees Brian Poole and the Tremeloes? The Sensational Alex Harvey Band? The REM? Bill Haley and the Comets? Bob Marley?


Although it's always a controversial thing to say on BCB, I feel that about a lot of prog,..which is why its adherents on here are almost exclusively people who have grown up with it. Generally speaking it hasn't succeeded in capturing the interest of subsequent generations.


Maybe in the UK but in every other country in the world prog still generates a great deal of interest among younger generations.
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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby The Modernist » 07 Mar 2014, 21:21

Yeah we've had this chat before (in the pub rather than on here!) and it is interesting how differently these things are perceived in different countries.

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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby Bungo the Mungo » 07 Mar 2014, 21:57

WG Kaspar wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
mantochanga wrote:
But who else can we think of who was right for their own time, who still retains an audience that grew up with them, that understands the context they came out of, and knows what innovations they introduced; but who lacks whatever qualities are needed for long-view posterity and the love and attention of succeeding generations.

How about perennial BCB Cup absentees Brian Poole and the Tremeloes? The Sensational Alex Harvey Band? The REM? Bill Haley and the Comets? Bob Marley?


Although it's always a controversial thing to say on BCB, I feel that about a lot of prog,..which is why its adherents on here are almost exclusively people who have grown up with it. Generally speaking it hasn't succeeded in capturing the interest of subsequent generations.


Maybe in the UK but in every other country in the world prog still generates a great deal of interest among younger generations.


In Greece! I was surprised - the couple of times I've visited, you'd find a lot of old prog vinyl knocking around in those record shops.

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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby Davey the Fat Boy » 07 Mar 2014, 22:23

The Modernist wrote:
VRZ Robotz wrote:I'd wager that Clapton's rep is among the most durable in pop music.


In what sense is it?
I think the original post has a point. A few of his songs have become oldies radio chestnuts - "Wonderful Tonight", "Layla" and er..the one about his dead son perhaps. However his critical reputation, in terms of being seen as this vital artist, is hardly very high now. I don't think you'd find many young people looking for his work either. His biggest legacy is probably Cream, but it was Bruce and Baker that made that band in my view.


You don't find many young people looking for Louis Jordan's work either, or Robert Johnson - but their critical reputations persist.

When Eric Clapton is someday viewed within the scope of history, he'll be remembered as one of the prototype guitar heroes, and as the guy who entered the hall of fame in more incarnations than any other artist. His legacy is pretty well secured.
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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby The Modernist » 07 Mar 2014, 22:28

VRZ Robotz wrote:
The Modernist wrote:
VRZ Robotz wrote:I'd wager that Clapton's rep is among the most durable in pop music.


In what sense is it?
I think the original post has a point. A few of his songs have become oldies radio chestnuts - "Wonderful Tonight", "Layla" and er..the one about his dead son perhaps. However his critical reputation, in terms of being seen as this vital artist, is hardly very high now. I don't think you'd find many young people looking for his work either. His biggest legacy is probably Cream, but it was Bruce and Baker that made that band in my view.


You don't find many young people looking for Louis Jordan's work either, or Robert Johnson - but their critical reputations persist.

When Eric Clapton is someday viewed within the scope of history, he'll be remembered as one of the prototype guitar heroes, and as the guy who entered the hall of fame in more incarnations than any other artist. His legacy is pretty well secured.


Your first point is probably true, as to your second, does anyone really give a shit about The Hall Of Fame?
He will probably be continued to be checked out by young rock guitarists wanting know about the history of their instrument. I don't think he'll have much appeal beyond that personally.

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Re: Their reputation will die with their audience

Postby Phenomenal Cat » 07 Mar 2014, 22:32

Muskrat wrote:
Phenomenal Cat wrote:Van Morrison.


Who?


My work is done here.
Now, I’m liberal, but to a degree
I want everybody to be free
But if you think that I’ll let Rick Santorum
Move in next door and marry my son
You must think I’m crazy!

But somehow when you smile, I can brave bad weather.