Elvis (the real one)

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Snarfyguy
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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby Snarfyguy » 26 Oct 2012, 20:38

toomanyhatz wrote:
GoogaMooga wrote:The evolution of popular music into singer-songwriter was not necessarily for the better.


Indeed. Re: Jimbo's post: yes, there are plenty of singers and musicians out there that would have left us much better off had they not been so "honest" as to try to express themselves by writing their own songs.

There are a few songs, apparently, for which the Elvis co-write is actually accurate. I'd say waiting till you actually have something to say is a lot more honest than pouring your heart out every time you have a bad date or a pimple.

Agreed.

And pre-Beatles it was pretty unusual for singers to also be songwriters (of course, there are exceptions - I'm generalizing). So Jimbo was looking for a great performer and singer who synthesized various strands of music into rock & roll and who was white but sounded black and caused teenage hysteria and and wrote all his own material and Elvis doesn't measure up? That's a pretty tall order.
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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby Matt Wilson » 26 Oct 2012, 20:58

toomanyhatz wrote:
toomanyhatz wrote:There are a few songs, apparently, for which the Elvis co-write is actually accurate


It was me that said it, not Googa.

The two that are generally thought to have legitimate Presley input are "That's Something You Never Forget" and "You'll Be Gone," both from '61. According to Guralnick, he was trying his hand at songwriting and, while his ideas were fleshed out by professional songwriters, Elvis's input is genuine. IIRC, there are some others as well, but I could be wrong about that. If so, replace the word 'few' with 'couple'.


Yep, those are the two.

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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby Walk In My Shadow » 26 Oct 2012, 23:12

When I was just a kid I wasn't into Elvis because early Dylan and early Stones were so much more exciting.
Later on I discovered he had a great VOICE and started giving his output more attention.
Though I was never a big fan of early Elvis (Sun period).
I always liked middle Elvis most even when he started playing Las Vegas.
I agree he didn't write his own songs but his interpretations of other people's songs were mostly great.
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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby toomanyhatz » 27 Oct 2012, 00:54

Elvis's version of Dylan's "Tomorrow is a Long Time" is really nice and really pretty folkie, considering it's a slick studio creation.

His version of "Hey Jude," on the other hand- not so good.
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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby Jimbo » 27 Oct 2012, 15:55

Okay, maybe it wasn't that he didn't write his own songs but a number of the early ones had his name on the record along with Otis Blackwell's and those songs were IMO his best and among the best music ever. It was after his rockabilly era when he had illusions he could be a crooner a la Dean Martin is when he lost me as a fan. And singers like Martin and Sinatra were good crooners while Elvis was not.
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Matt Wilson
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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby Matt Wilson » 27 Oct 2012, 17:42

Elvis was a much better singer than Deano. Let's see Martin handle something like "It's Now or Never" for instance. Roy Orbison could've sung that. Martin would've tried a swingin' smarmy approach with a cocktail in his hand and it would've come out like, well, Dean Martin.

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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby 50 Shades Of Blue » 27 Oct 2012, 20:54

Jock wrote:LIke this thread. It'll maybe make me read the two books, that i've had for years :oops:


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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby Billybob Dylan » 29 Oct 2012, 22:49

Snarfyguy wrote:Does not being a songwriter disqualify someone from being an artist, or a singer? In way is the music "dishonest?" Somebody wrote it.

No, not at all in my opinion. You can admire someone for their voice, or their choice of material (or both) even if they've never written a note in their life. Many of us, more than once, have contributed to threads about cover versions being better than the originals.
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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby Nolamike » 29 Oct 2012, 22:55

Matt Wilson wrote:Elvis was a much better singer than Deano. Let's see Martin handle something like "It's Now or Never" for instance. Roy Orbison could've sung that. Martin would've tried a swingin' smarmy approach with a cocktail in his hand and it would've come out like, well, Dean Martin.


Yep. Martin is fun, but he wasn't exactly a great vocalist.
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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby Muskrat » 30 Oct 2012, 00:33

Matt Wilson wrote:Elvis was a much better singer than Deano. Let's see Martin handle something like "It's Now or Never" for instance.


Matt's illusion:


The reality:


bhoywonder wrote:Top 5 Elvises:
1– Sun Elvis



(Dean had the original hit)
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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby Matt Wilson » 30 Oct 2012, 03:41

Martin never had a hit with "I Don't Care if the Sun Don't Shine," and he was hardly the first to sing it either.

It was originally written for Disney's Cinderella, but not used in the film. There were several 1950 versions of the song. Patti Page probably did it first and had the biggest hit and later others as well. LeRoy Holmes and Dean did it (and Deano looks ridiculous in that video), but Georgia Gibbs had a popular version (in 1951) too.

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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby Muskrat » 30 Oct 2012, 04:47

Matt Wilson wrote:Martin never had a hit with "I Don't Care if the Sun Don't Shine," and he was hardly the first to sing it either.

It was originally written for Disney's Cinderella, but not used in the film. There were several 1950 versions of the song. Patti Page probably did it first and had the biggest hit and later others as well. LeRoy Holmes and Dean did it (and Deano looks ridiculous in that video), but Georgia Gibbs had a popular version (in 1951) too.


Right you are (except maybe the "ridiculous" part, and with those lyrics no wonder Disney turned it down), but I maintain that Elvis got it from Martin, not Patti Page or Georgia Gibbs.

And -- I find that video illustrating your question, and you respond by correcting me on the song's provenance?
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Quaco wrote: Not that I advocate writing "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict" if that happens to be in the set, but just don't shorten it quite so much!

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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby Matt Wilson » 30 Oct 2012, 13:33

Um, what question was that again?

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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby Goat Boy » 30 Oct 2012, 17:52

D'avey wrote:I freaking love the guy. His catalogue is such a deep well, with so many interesting strains: rockabilly, gospel, county-soul, etc... Then you've got a huge strain of completely uncategorizable records (what genre is "Suspicion" or "It's Now or Never"?).

That the current rock mythology has Kraftwerk looming larger than Presley says all that needs to be said about the Kool-Aid being imbibed around these parts.


You really don't understand modern music at all do you? Rock n roll died years ago. Hip hop and dance took over.
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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby Your Friendly Neighbourhood Postman » 30 Oct 2012, 18:03

The '50s Sun Sessions box just has been re-released in a slimmer box, at superbudget price.

I might consider...
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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby Muskrat » 30 Oct 2012, 18:23

Matt Wilson wrote:Um, what question was that again?


OK: request.

Matt Wilson wrote:Let's see Martin handle something like "It's Now or Never" for instance.
Things that a fella can't forget...

Quaco wrote: Not that I advocate writing "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict" if that happens to be in the set, but just don't shorten it quite so much!

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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby nathan » 30 Oct 2012, 18:32

Screw all of you and Guralnick for writing off his movie soundtracks. I don't think I could be without the Fun in Acapulco and Roustabout soundtracks. I think they are tons of fun.

There is not one era or aspect of Elvis' career that I would call 'shit'. He wanted to be James Dean or Marlon Brando but ended up a warmed over Frankie Avalon. In that context, his movies are highly enjoyable. The soundtracks are much better than they are given credit for too. Sure, there are a lot of corny songs but much of it can sit right beside the RCA records he was making in the early 60's.

In fact, the sun-soaked and pilled-up Elvis just might be my favorite.

Stuff like this makes many Elvis fans sad but it fills me with fucking glee:



I think Elvis spent more time singing while fake driving a vehicle in front of some rear-projected backdrop than any other human. That's pretty neat, surely.

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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby toomanyhatz » 30 Oct 2012, 18:35

Also, Elvis always admitted that Dino was a huge influence on him. I think he may have even referred to him as the biggest once or twice.

The drunk shtick took over eventually, but I rate them pretty equal as singers in their prime. Obviously Orbison, Sinatra, Bennett, etc., can sing rings around either of them. For both it was how they inhabited a song rather than any great skills.
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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby Matt Wilson » 30 Oct 2012, 18:36

Someone post a link showing Dean singing with passion, and not just crooning and snapping his fingers.

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Re: Elvis (the real one)

Postby The Modernist » 30 Oct 2012, 18:40

Matt Wilson wrote:Someone post a link showing Dean singing with passion, and not just crooning and snapping his fingers.


Singing with passion isn't what crooners do surely?