in•no•va•tive [in-uh-vey-tiv]
adjective
tending to innovate, characterized by innovation.
...
in•no•vate [in-uh-veyt]
verb
1. to introduce something new; make changes in anything established.
verb (used with object)
2. to introduce (something new) for or as if for the first time.
3. Archaic. to alter.
There aren’t too many truly innovative artists in pop music. I don’t think Television were wildly innovative, but they did hone a distinctive and original sound. They were part of a movement that altered the course of rock music (Archaic definition #3).
They composed songs around interlocking riff-structures rather than your standard rhythm plus lead. Verlaine and Lloyd both eschewed blues licks and tonality in their playing. They did odd things with timing; the way the guitars come in after the chorus of Elevation… is that a 1/16 note or what?
But a great deal of that guitar sound came from The 13th Floor Elevators. This is no secret; Fire Engine was in their repertoire for years and Verlaine openly saluted the band as an influence.
Ultimately, when I listen to Television or Verlaine’s solo albums I’m struck by the intelligence at work. Bullshit poetry? No. He came up with solid expressionistic lyrics. The song structures are graphically vivid and beautifully designed; only the best music imprints itself that way in my mind. Sure, you could say they were two parts Velvets, two parts Elevators and one part free jazz with a dollop of French symbolist poetry (and a pinch of Rolling Stones). All things considered, that was pretty damned original in the mid-70’s.
I think it’s a testament to their influence that they sound so palatable to modern ears. They were booed when they toured as opening act for Peter Gabriel.
Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
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Guy E
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
["Minnie the Stalker"]The first time that we met I knew I was going to make him mine.
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Jeff K
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
I wonder why Matt never argues with Guy the way he does with me?
I guess he's scared of Guy.
I guess he's scared of Guy.
the science eel experiment wrote:Jesus Christ can't save BCB, i believe i can.
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Bungo the Mungo
Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
He's scared of anyone older than him. He's reminded of school when the teachers made him cry.
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T. Berry Shuffle
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
Sulko Snotty Chops wrote:Jeff K wrote:The long guitar solo thing that Television got tagged with doesn't hold much ground either since they only did it on a couple of songs. Solo's that were more influenced by Coltrane and Ayler than anything rock-related.
So they are just as hidebound and reliant as tradition as the Rolling Stones are.
Is it Ayler and Coltrane, now? I remember when it was supposed to be Eric Dolphy he was channeling. (Course Dolphy was the more popular figure then) In truth Verlaine doesn't have a thimble full of the musical brilliance that those guys did in him. And I hear zero outside jazz in Television's music. I read these efforts to associate Verlaine's guitar style with the avant-garde quite frequently but to these ears it seems an attempt to piggy back him unto genius he hath not. If you ask me it sounds like they're trying to mimic David Gilmour's playing on Animals.
I like Marguee Moon quite a bit, but seriously, pull your thumbs out.
You read that in a book, didn't you?!
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Matt Wilson
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
I wonder why Jeff never argues with T. Berry like he does with me.
Guy's cool, and I don't argue with my friends. Now you and Coan, on the other hand...
Guy's cool, and I don't argue with my friends. Now you and Coan, on the other hand...
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BARON CORNY DOG
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
Guy E wrote:Bullshit poetry? No. He came up with solid expressionistic lyrics.
Same difference.
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.
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yellowjacket
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
I have never heard of this " Marquee Moon " what band does it? All I know is the Sloan song of the same title.
How would you like to be remembered? Oh I don't know. I suppose if we are remembered as a great little rock and roll band it would be fine.........
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BARON CORNY DOG
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
yellowjacket wrote:I have never heard of this " Marquee Moon " what band does it? All I know is the Sloan song of the same title.
Sell the Sloan record and buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/Marquee-Moon-Dig- ... =8-2-spell
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.
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T. Berry Shuffle
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
The lyrics on Marquee Moon are ridiculous. It they intended them not to be that's rather laughable.
You read that in a book, didn't you?!
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yellowjacket
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
Sulko Snotty Chops wrote:yellowjacket wrote:I have never heard of this " Marquee Moon " what band does it? All I know is the Sloan song of the same title.
Sell the Sloan record and buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/Marquee-Moon-Dig- ... =8-2-spell
Sorry, but the Sloan song is quite good and I have never even heard of "Television".
How would you like to be remembered? Oh I don't know. I suppose if we are remembered as a great little rock and roll band it would be fine.........
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toomanyhatz
- Power-mad king of the WCC
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
Sulko Snotty Chops wrote:Sell the Sloan record
Always good advice.
Footy wrote:
The Who / Jimi Hendrix Experience Saville Theatre, London Jan '67
. Got Jimi's autograph after the show and went on to see him several times that year
1959 1963 1965 1966 1974 1977 1978 1981 1988 2017* 2018 2020!! 2023?
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BARON CORNY DOG
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
yellowjacket wrote:Sulko Snotty Chops wrote:yellowjacket wrote:I have never heard of this " Marquee Moon " what band does it? All I know is the Sloan song of the same title.
Sell the Sloan record and buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/Marquee-Moon-Dig- ... =8-2-spell
Sorry, but the Sloan song is quite good and I have never even heard of "Television".
It's like $5 and even the people here dissing it love it! Buy it!
take5_d_shorterer wrote:If John Bonham simply didn't listen to enough Tommy Johnson or Blind Willie Mctell, that's his doing.
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Guy E
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
T. Berry Shuffle wrote:Sulko Snotty Chops wrote:Jeff K wrote:The long guitar solo thing that Television got tagged with doesn't hold much ground either since they only did it on a couple of songs. Solo's that were more influenced by Coltrane and Ayler than anything rock-related.
So they are just as hidebound and reliant as tradition as the Rolling Stones are.
Is it Ayler and Coltrane, now? I remember when it was supposed to be Eric Dolphy he was channeling. (Course Dolphy was the more popular figure then) In truth Verlaine doesn't have a thimble full of the musical brilliance that those guys did in him. And I hear zero outside jazz in Television's music. I read these efforts to associate Verlaine's guitar style with the avant-garde quite frequently but to these ears it seems an attempt to piggy back him unto genius he hath not. If you ask me it sounds like they're trying to mimic David Gilmour's playing on Animals.
I like Marguee Moon quite a bit, but seriously, pull your thumbs out.
As much as I love their studio albums you have to have either seen the group on a good night or explore the live bootlegs.
To my ears he's the greatest electric guitarist since Hendrix... that's not saying he's John Fucking Coltrane, but he's taken me there more than once (wherever there was on that particular night).
T. Berry Shuffle wrote:The lyrics on Marquee Moon are ridiculous. It they intended them not to be that's rather laughable.
I've always found the imagery quite evocative, but I'm not much of a lyric guy.
["Minnie the Stalker"]The first time that we met I knew I was going to make him mine.
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harvey k-tel
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
T. Berry Shuffle wrote:The lyrics on Marquee Moon are ridiculous. It they intended them not to be that's rather laughable.
The song 'Marquee Moon' could easily pass as a Keith Richards lyric.
Tempora mutatur et nos mutamur in illis
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doctorlouie
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Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
yellowjacket for BCB cup 2012!
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T. Berry Shuffle
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
I'm talking that the lyrics on the entire album are rather of no consequence, and I happen to enjoy the record very much. Torn Curtain, notwithstanding, as it is daft.
You read that in a book, didn't you?!
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T. Berry Shuffle
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
Harvey K-Tel wrote:T. Berry Shuffle wrote:The lyrics on Marquee Moon are ridiculous. It they intended them not to be that's rather laughable.
The song 'Marquee Moon' could easily pass as a Keith Richards lyric.
Keef wouldn't have uttered this 'un: "Look here junior, don't you be so happy.
And for Heaven's sake, don't you be so sad."
You read that in a book, didn't you?!
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Count Machuki
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
toomanyhatz wrote:Sulko Snotty Chops wrote:Sell the Sloan record
Always good advice.
Except that one Navy Blues. That was awesome.
Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D
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harvey k-tel
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
T. Berry Shuffle wrote:Harvey K-Tel wrote:T. Berry Shuffle wrote:The lyrics on Marquee Moon are ridiculous. It they intended them not to be that's rather laughable.
The song 'Marquee Moon' could easily pass as a Keith Richards lyric.
Keef wouldn't have uttered this 'un: "Look here junior, don't you be so happy.
And for Heaven's sake, don't you be so sad."
Well, I think he would have.
Tempora mutatur et nos mutamur in illis
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Magilla
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Re: Sticky Fingers vs. Marquee Moon
Sulko Snotty Chops wrote:yellowjacket wrote:I have never heard of this " Marquee Moon " what band does it? All I know is the Sloan song of the same title.
Sell the Sloan record and buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/Marquee-Moon-Dig- ... =8-2-spell
Er, I think Yellowjacket may've been being facetious.
"U2 routinely spent a year in the studio...I have a theory: if you put four monkeys in the studio for a year with Lanois and Eno and Lillywhite, they would make a pretty good record, too."