Isolated live vocals

Do talk back
User avatar
Thang-y
Posts: 584
Joined: 29 Apr 2016, 17:59

Isolated live vocals

Postby Thang-y » 15 Jul 2017, 21:21

Oh dear. Oh very very dear


User avatar
Thang-y
Posts: 584
Joined: 29 Apr 2016, 17:59

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby Thang-y » 16 Jul 2017, 14:07

Huh ... apparently a photograph of an over-cossetted popular singer and her twin babies is more interesting than various singers' ability to actually sing live. :?

I should have posted a picture of a diva's arse or something.

User avatar
Rayge
Posts: 10636
Joined: 14 Aug 2013, 11:37
Location: deepest Devon
Contact:

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby Rayge » 16 Jul 2017, 14:56

Thang-y wrote:Huh ... apparently a photograph of an over-cossetted popular singer and her twin babies is more interesting than various singers' ability to actually sing live. :?

I should have posted a picture of a diva's arse or something.


Well, the commentary didn't help. seemed a bit random in dishing out praise and brickbats. Bouncy 'slayed'? Sounded pretty ropey to me. Being an old guy, four of them I'd never heard (of), so had nothing to compare it with. But Mariah Carey, ooogh

Oh and it's not so much the twins as three rounds of the prog cup and 19 of shithits that's overwhelming everything else...
You can't play a tune on an absolute

When the ball sleeps it dreams it is a Frisbee

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will

User avatar
Thang-y
Posts: 584
Joined: 29 Apr 2016, 17:59

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby Thang-y » 16 Jul 2017, 17:18

Fair point (about the commentary) - I'd totally ignored them, but yes.

User avatar
Fonz
Posts: 3101
Joined: 17 Feb 2014, 14:10
Location: Nevermore

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby Fonz » 17 Jul 2017, 07:52

Well, I wouldn't go to see any of these, but to be fair, most of the bands I've seen have had some pretty ropey moments- vocals, dodgy guitar solos.
Heyyyy!

"Fonz clearly has no fucks to give. I like the cut of his Cupicidal gib."

User avatar
take5_d_shorterer
Posts: 5573
Joined: 22 Sep 2003, 23:09
Location: photo. by Andor Kertesz, Hung.

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 17 Jul 2017, 15:34

Thang-y wrote:Oh dear. Oh very very dear



Try to understand what the author wished to do, and do not blame him for not achieving what he did not attempt.

--John Updike's advice on how to write a book review, The New Yorker, 1975


Unaccompanied performance is a very specific art form with its own rules and parameters.


User avatar
Count Machuki
BCB Cup Champion 2013
Posts: 37067
Joined: 11 Jun 2005, 15:28
Location: way down below the ocean

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby Count Machuki » 17 Jul 2017, 16:34

Fonz wrote:Well, I wouldn't go to see any of these, but to be fair, most of the bands I've seen have had some pretty ropey moments- vocals, dodgy guitar solos.


I bet 3/4 "live" records we like have overdubs to sweeten up the vocals, particularly harmonies.
Let U be the set of all united sets, K be the set of the kids and D be the set of things divided.
Then it follows that ∀ k ∈ K: K ∈ U ⇒ k ∉ D

User avatar
Charlie O.
Posts: 37691
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:53
Location: In-A-Badda-La-Wadda, bay-beh

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby Charlie O. » 17 Jul 2017, 22:40

Count Machuki wrote:
Fonz wrote:Well, I wouldn't go to see any of these, but to be fair, most of the bands I've seen have had some pretty ropey moments- vocals, dodgy guitar solos.


I bet 3/4 "live" records we like have overdubs to sweeten up the vocals, particularly harmonies.

I remember trying (less than successfully) to make similar points here (or maybe it was on MOJO) regarding the infamous "Linda McCartney tape."
Image

User avatar
Thang-y
Posts: 584
Joined: 29 Apr 2016, 17:59

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby Thang-y » 18 Jul 2017, 16:15

take5_d_shorterer wrote:Unaccompanied performance is a very specific art form with its own rules and parameters.


Maybe, but these people are, you know, singers. They get paid a very great deal of money to .. er .. sing. They've got, like, one job and all that.

User avatar
take5_d_shorterer
Posts: 5573
Joined: 22 Sep 2003, 23:09
Location: photo. by Andor Kertesz, Hung.

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby take5_d_shorterer » 19 Jul 2017, 02:03

No. In many of the examples cited in the video, the performers are primarily "all-around entertainers", meaning that the audience expects that they are supposed to do jumping jacks and several costume changes while singing. That itself, namely, why music fans insist on this, is the interesting topic here. Unfortunately the idiot who put the video together didn't see that and decided to write a bunch of inane comments instead.

Yes, Brittany Spears is having more difficulty with intonation than Justin Bieber. Might that have anything to do with the relative amount of physical activity that each performer was trying to do simultaneously?

Not that hard to figure this stuff out.

User avatar
Darkness_Fish
Posts: 3438
Joined: 27 Jul 2015, 09:58

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby Darkness_Fish » 19 Jul 2017, 08:43

take5_d_shorterer wrote:Yes, Brittany Spears is having more difficulty with intonation than Justin Bieber. Might that have anything to do with the relative amount of physical activity that each performer was trying to do simultaneously?

In the case of Britney and Taylor Swift, I'm not convinced they were actually doing anything more than lip-synching. There's no element of performance at all to their vocals there, it sounds like they're barely muttering.
Saving my holier-than-thou nonsense for a more deserving cause since '82

User avatar
Thang-y
Posts: 584
Joined: 29 Apr 2016, 17:59

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby Thang-y » 19 Jul 2017, 11:11

take5_d_shorterer wrote:No. In many of the examples cited in the video, the performers are primarily "all-around entertainers", meaning that the audience expects that they are supposed to do jumping jacks and several costume changes while singing.


Yeah, I realised as I was typing that that they're expected to put on a show. But they're still primarily singers.

But that is why weak voices like Kylie Minogue's can still pull crowds by putting on an extravaganza (and people like Patti Labelle don't need to). They should still be able to sing well tho, given what they're paid.

User avatar
bobzilla77
Posts: 14936
Joined: 23 Jun 2006, 02:56
Location: Dilute! Dilute! OK!

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby bobzilla77 » 19 Jul 2017, 19:14

Of course listening to tracks in isolation is not a fair assessment of how the performance actually came across to the audience. I didn't watch the whole clip but I thought most of them seemed fine.

I understand why people think the Linda M tape is funny. I do too for that matter, but it doesn't make me think she's a horrible person or anything.

The effect of the ending of that song is "everybody sing along!" including your dear old auntie who's a little tone deaf, and it achieves that. When you have a big massed choir like that, you kind of need one person to be slightly off or it sounds like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

Certainly, had Linda been in the studio by herself, hearing herself clearly through headphones, and had multiple takes to get it right like Paul did, you would hear a better result.

Nevertheless ... because I really dislike her... I will always kind of enjoy this.



I'm sure that guitar is not even in the mix the audience hears, may not even in her monitor. She seems like someone who would wear a guitar for looks.
Jimbo wrote:The Natural Times said no matter, essentially we are all doomed.


User avatar
Thang-y
Posts: 584
Joined: 29 Apr 2016, 17:59

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby Thang-y » 19 Jul 2017, 20:07

Lots of "not a fair assessment"-type comments, but I'm not trying to assess how good they're at, I'm just genuinely shocked at what fucking noise comes out of their gob for which they're getting good money.

Anyway, is this the Linda "star-fucker" McCartney thing to which yous refer?


User avatar
Charlie O.
Posts: 37691
Joined: 21 Jul 2003, 19:53
Location: In-A-Badda-La-Wadda, bay-beh

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby Charlie O. » 19 Jul 2017, 20:37

bobzilla77 wrote:I understand why people think the Linda M tape is funny. I do too for that matter, but it doesn't make me think she's a horrible person or anything.

The effect of the ending of that song is "everybody sing along!" including your dear old auntie who's a little tone deaf, and it achieves that. When you have a big massed choir like that, you kind of need one person to be slightly off or it sounds like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

I'll go further. Whoever taped and leaked this had plenty of songs in the set to choose from - songs where Linda had an actual harmony part, a part she had to get at least reasonably right. I don't know what his beef (oops, sorry Linda) with Mrs. Mac was, but I think it's telling that he picked the one bit in the whole show where she had 10,000+ people covering her part - the one bit where it truly didn't matter WHAT she sang.
Image

User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 59233
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12
Location: One quake away from beachfront property
Contact:

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby sloopjohnc » 19 Jul 2017, 21:03

Thang-y wrote:
take5_d_shorterer wrote:Unaccompanied performance is a very specific art form with its own rules and parameters.


Maybe, but these people are, you know, singers. They get paid a very great deal of money to .. er .. sing. They've got, like, one job and all that.


Less singers than entertainers. It's why Martha Wash sang and a model appeared in videos for C+C Music Factory and why everyone believed Milli Vanilli. It's at least 50% image. At least.

"We can fix it in the mix."
Bride Of Sea Of Tunes wrote:I for one wouldn't want to know what memories and deep and dark forces drive Ed Sheeran, Coldplay, or Radiohead, for certain.

User avatar
Thang-y
Posts: 584
Joined: 29 Apr 2016, 17:59

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby Thang-y » 20 Jul 2017, 09:55

Christ you're a forgiving lot. Me, if someone goes on a stage and purports to sing, they'd better be able to do it and do it well. It's not like it's a rare fucking talent.

(It's different when you're there for the musicianship - no-one could ever accuse Van Morrison of being a fine singer. But that's the point, these people are "singers".)

On a note of sheer fantasy, I wish there were an 'alphabet challenge' where singers (rather than musicians like Van) have to sing the alphabet live to a simple accompaniment.

Here's A Singer:


User avatar
sloopjohnc
Posts: 59233
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 20:12
Location: One quake away from beachfront property
Contact:

Re: Isolated live vocals

Postby sloopjohnc » 20 Jul 2017, 17:56

I think pop music singing is as much about tone as it is hitting notes. Hitting notes is important, but I think tone is just as important. It's less important to me that Mick Jagger hits a note than Ariana Grande. Grande's a better singer, but I 'd venture to guess will leave a much less memorable musical legacy.
Bride Of Sea Of Tunes wrote:I for one wouldn't want to know what memories and deep and dark forces drive Ed Sheeran, Coldplay, or Radiohead, for certain.